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MINK: I can't answer what she would have wanted. I can answer with respect to what I observed, which is that as a bipartisan caucus, 

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it was not necessarily the best place for a feminist legislator interested in social justice to articulate and then advance those goals, right?  I mean, 

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just because you're female doesn't mean that you agree on everything, and certainly doesn't mean that you necessarily all support 

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the same women for the same reasons on the same issues. So, 

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I think just in, in kind of a sketchy look backwards that while the kind of the sisterhood aspect of the caucus, 

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the, you know, having it as a place to talk about issues where there was agreement—and certainly, there were those, too—

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was a, was a great thing. And I think she would have liked to have had that in the '60s and '70s. 

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For some of the most contentious aspects of her tenure, it was not, it was not necessarily an institution that would have enhanced outcomes, or 

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made things feel better in the course of fighting for whatever it was the, was the policy of the day.

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MURPHY: Much has been made—oh, go ahead, yes. 
MINK: And actually, I should also say that one, one—

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another aspect of this was something that was actually extremely important to her. One of the reasons you could have such a vibrant caucus that was

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frustratingly unable to come to an agreement on certain kinds of issues—right, because women have a range of opinions—

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was that the number of women in Congress had exponentially increased. And that was something that pleased her no end.

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She was very concerned to have women's representation be increased to whatever extent possible, 

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and wanted to encourage women to run for office of whatever party, but especially Democrats. 

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And so, the, some of, some of the limitations of the caucus have to do with its size, but the fact of its size was actually a sign of progress, so.